You're unifying data from different countries into one single hub, we are standardising that, we are analysing the data and presenting it to a bank's over one single API. So for a bank, it doesn't matter if the customer is coming from Poland, Germany, Spain, Italy.

Typically banks have share of foreign customers 10% to 15%. Okay, 10 to 15% is good enough to care about, but the problem is that this 10% to 15% are not coming from one single country. They are coming from the twenty seven or even more since they outside of EU like the UK, Switzerland, etc.

So quite a long list of a country - this is a problem. And it's not feasible for one single bank. They will build the data pipelines and try to build the knowledge and standardise now it's just too expensive.

But in our case, it is okay, because if we are building this infrastructure, we can sell it to different banks, and each bank is paying their share. But of course, there are plenty of hurdles not only technology hurdle, various legal hurdles. Also we have European Union one same, same legal framework, as it said, there really is in the details. So in different countries, it's still a bit different than we are solving these hurdles.

So if you were to think of some of these African countries and then go into Rwanda, you will understand that the credit growth and maturity is fairly new outside of South Africa, most of these African countries had predominantly been cash-driven markets, it's not to say there wouldn't have been a form of lending or products that would have been there. But if you think of the South African credit market or maturity curve, you know, retail, for instance, people go and buy clothes on credit, you have never seen that in any of the African markets, they get a shock to hear that you buy clothes on credit. So there's still a lot of whitespace, there's still a lot of opportunities for better products to come into play. So personal loans have predominantly been the default lending product that we've seen in the market across all the financial institutions in Rwanda.

But now mortgage, your typical mortgage, right? It's starting to emerge as a product, that historically people would probably just get a personal loan and go buy a plot of land and try to, you know, use their own income to build a house for themselves. What you have started to see off the lead is vehicle financing starting to come up in Rwanda. I'm not sure how close you are to the VW project that kicked off, I think, a couple of years back where they had a factory and wonder and assembling factory and wonder, because outside of South Africa, maybe with the exception of Botswana and Namibia, most of these countries do a lot of great imports. Right? So you find a lot of Japanese cars out here, right? So with that said, vehicle finance, the process of it has been much of a challenge because the bank doesn't know the vehicle, they're financing, they don't have confidence on the quality of the vehicle, right?

We don't like to say it's a small country actually, and we just held the NATO summit in Vilnius in July, so we had a very nice ad: Lithuania is not a small country, it's a big country compacted to your convenience!

That's Lithuania. It's not a relatively small country: it's extremely compact. It's easy to reach, it's pretty much all in one place. It's great work life balance. And that's why Lithuania is feeling kind of Renaissance for re-immigration.

Well, the Lithuanian GDP, if compared to 2000 it has grown five times, if compared to 1995 it has grown 8.6 times. So it was really, really expanding.

What we do see is, working with larger providers, a real growth in adoption. If I think about the three months worth of data, live data, that we've got in the bureau - so December into January and Feb - interest free, predominantly online, for a term of no more than three months. There we see 3.8 million unique customers.

A big number, right? And they've made 50 million transactions, spending almost 20 million pounds. And it's not just your Gen Z. It's not just your Millennials, it's across all demographics.

And actually the fastest growing demographic is the 35 to 44 age band. Suddenly, I'm now just outside of that, but it's reflecting the point of becoming more mainstream, right? This is established, right? It's here to stay.

What we're doing is actually really, really complicated, but you can ingest this data and then give it to the bureaus and you know, the keys format, the Insight format, depending on which Bureau it's obviously a very hard thing to build. But imagine if that real time flow of data via an API became something the bureau started to ingest direct from the API.

Step one is to simplify the integration, simplify the reciprocating of data create a common standard, but eventually I think TransUnion, Equifax, and Experian should become real time networks. You know how many customers have a buy now pay later player goes to all the other BNPL players and borrows money in the same month. And if bureau data is stale by a month, two months refreshed once a month, that doesn't get caught in the system, right?

I mean, it's all a matter of perspective. Actually Creditinfo, in relation to the Experian and TransUnion and so on and so forth, is not as large. However, Creditinfo is a very fast growing organisation, and their focus is very much on emerging markets. And that was the piece that was really attractive, you know, the over encompassing idea is Creditinfo's focus is on providing access to finance within the emerging countries.

That was the main driver for me. This call to work with countries, to work in the parts of the world where everything is so dynamic, everything is so fast-moving, you take an action and you see immediately the impact of that one, you roll up your sleeves and you just basically get on with it.

The learning aspect is probably the most important we eat volatility for breakfast, we make love to volatility!

That right there describes our structural - and I think unassailable - advantage in a world that has suddenly become quite a bit more volatile than it has been for the last number of decades, under which my friends in the conventional 1.0 version of the bureau's operate. And global interconnectedness or the globalisation of economies means that things happening in the Ukraine, from which my ancestors hail, to the gas pumps in North America is a pretty direct connection. And so whether it's gas pumps or groceries that are becoming much more expensive, you have consumers feeling it.

And therefore, to my lender customers, those same consumers need to be scored properly in the fullness of all of the environmental macro factors, as well as the micro factors down at the borrower's level.

The mobile wallets information I see, in a way, as a parallel option to Open Banking. It's really where somebody's having their financial transactions give us an indication of their income or their ability to spend, as well as some indication of the consistency of salary over time and the income. So I think what we've seen is combining that with the credit bureau data, you know, really provides a really strong indication of risk.

And we talked about the different data sources, some of the data sources we may not be holding within the the credit bureau, but what we're trying to do is actually facilitate so we can provide decision modules where we're bringing together that data that may be held by the telco or the bank in the mobile wallet and combining that with the credit bureau data so it's easier to use to generate those decisions for the lenders.

I think you're absolutely right that credit scores in the US are better understood. We're told that Americans ask lenders 'my score is 750, what can you offer me?' and they discussed it openly with friends over dinner - it hasn't quite penetrated the consumer psyche in the same way here, but what's been really positive to see recently, though, is there's definitely a growing awareness of the importance of regularly monitoring your credit information.

And that's been particularly evident through the pandemic TransUnion has been conducting a consumer pulse study to track the impacts of the pandemic on consumer finances, and we found at the end of 2021 that almost half of UK consumers are now monitoring their credit score at least monthly. And that's up from a third at the start of May 2020. Downside is our data has also shown that a quarter of people have never checked it, which is worrying given the important role that this information plays in helping people get access to finance and protecting their identity.

So we've created a first-world infrastructure, but it's been an uphill battle to get lenders to embrace the use of bureau data and credit scores and bureau scores to make mass decisions. In Nigeria, it's a legal requirement that you perform two credit inquiries, but that's not to say that you must make good use of the data you're given, as long as you know, you've met your legal obligations. So there hasn't really been an appreciation of how that data can help you improve your decision making. So that's the journey that I've been trying to help my clients to realise - it's been as an educational upskilling, a sort of training project as much as much as a hands-on rebuild the bureau score project.

I think one of the cultural changes that's required is the willingness to invest money in order to save money, that thinking hasn't really been that prevalent in Nigeria, in the past at least. Curiously, that's the first time I've ever encountered a situation where lenders have questioned, well, why are we paying for a credit inquiry if we ended up rejecting that customer? Why would we want to pay for that? Which kind of misses the point of the protection that screening for risk gives you.